*

Community Menu

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 24, 2017, 01:09:29 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: ODC Challenge - September 2013  (Read 3466 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Joom

  • I Am The
  • Administrator
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 51
  • I am, it's what I do...
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2013, 12:31:20 PM »
Its not a matter of balls Way2.  Its principal.  We have ALWAYS had the same rules in place.  No double dipping.

Yup, even back before TTM.

I still think, though, that we (meaning somebody who knows) should write up all the standard rules so I can sticky/lock them in the board.  Especially for newer people.

And besides, I have a better shot on the collab with Babs...  8) :P
A computer once beat me at chess - but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline onetrackmind

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1245
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2013, 03:50:29 PM »
I've not even thought about this months challenge. Time just passes with work, dinner, chores, putting son to bed. Can't remember the last time I got a guitar out and had a strum :-(

Offline Joom

  • I Am The
  • Administrator
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 51
  • I am, it's what I do...
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2013, 03:52:35 PM »
Time just passes with work, dinner, chores, putting son to bed. Can't remember the last time I got a guitar out and had a strum :-(

Sounds like a half written country song, One...  ;D
A computer once beat me at chess - but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline onetrackmind

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1245
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2013, 02:02:06 AM »
Ha ha JOOM, seeing as you put it like that I think there could be potential.

Offline way2lon

  • Coverall
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 2518
  • Karma: 39
  • Follow me, said the wise man. But he walked behind
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2013, 04:00:44 AM »
Quote
Its not a matter of balls Way2.  Its principal.
I thought it was supposed to be challenging for oneself to give us a push to write songs and develop. That's what it's doing for me. It's not about winning or hard fast rules is it?
I enter for the fun of it and to improve. I'm not bothered about winning and you have not much competition that way Dino unless people like me improve that much as to get anywhere near good.
So I say, if we have entries that have influence from another member, let them enter otherwise the number of entries may just diminish to one or two or even zero.
This time I will not vote on Jooms or Babs.
Jooms because he 'double dipped' and Babs because so did I with her as I recorded her effort and I'd be biased anyway. Which also means I will not vote on my own either.
It's up to the rest of the crew whether Joom's and my song are disqualified or not but until I hear what others say, I'll leave them in the band room.
I can stand it but I can't hardly

Offline Jahva

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1055
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2013, 07:30:27 AM »
I see it as you have "one" opportunity to do the best you can. But then I always seem to be on the wrong side in these challenge things.  :-X
Playin' the mind guerrilla Chantin' the mantra, peace on earth

JL

Offline Schprocket

  • Plays lead gill for The Mighty Hellfish and is also
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 4638
  • Karma: 36
  • Does Android dream of electric sheep?
    • View Profile
    • This is my home-away-from-home
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2013, 08:37:03 AM »
This isn't the thread to continue this discussion but I'll throw my tuppence worth in.

Let me open by saying that I don't enter most of these because:
(a) I go through phases of being sick of hearing myself singng everyone else's tracks except my own (note that I said - and I stress - "phases" :) I'm not in that "phase" at the moment) and this explains why I do so many covers because I get to do my own thing
(b) I don't have a lot of inclination to create much with my limited repetoire of six open chords and screwed-up, unintentionally muted barre chords
(c) I struggle with lyrics
(d) loops are a no-no, or rather are not "appreciated" (I may have this wrong)
(e) I'm an impatient guy whose mixing sucks.

We don't get anywhere near as many entries - or at least I'd assume so - on TTM as there would have been on KAE, so I personally don't see why there can't be a whole mess of tracks submitted because to my mind only the first track submitted by one person - for whatever the challenge criteria is - shall be considered the only legitimate submission.

To this end, it means that we also need to look at the way we set challenges.

If it's "write a song in style x" then that's the criteria, i.e. one valid lyrical entry regardless who sings it or mixes it, or how many more are submitted because not everyone can do all three particularly well.

If it's "sing an acapella", then one person/group of people may record many songs as such but whichever is submitted first is the only elligible entry - if you have more than one and prefer to submit another entry, too bad.

And so on....



Now... Randy and Boris have some work to do, so if you please be excusing us...
...they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying.

Offline DinoWodini

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1408
  • Karma: 37
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2013, 10:34:56 AM »
I can only add this:
 
The Challenge has always been (since back in around 2005 over at KAE and carried over to TTM) a "one" entry per person/band whether that be a collaborative entry or a solo entry.
 
Personally, I still treat it as a fun challenge and always have and always will.  Its simply a way to add to your own song book each month in a way.  12 Challenges per year = 1 album. 
 
But, there must be rules of entry and these rules have been in place for some time now.  That's my stand on this Challenge.  Whoever sets the Challenge sets criteria.  Maybe I should have done the whole blurb (exclusions and inclusions) in the first setting post but I didn't think it was required as we all know how it works.
 
As far as the voting goes.  That's everyones own choice.  The only rules on voting are that you place your own entry in last place and if you are a band/collab then there is one vote per collective band/collab.  Whether you vote strategically or vote from your heart is for you to decide.  But when we vote we MUST place all songs/entries in that vote.  It would be unfair to leave songs out of your vote. 
 
I have voted strategically a couple of times in the past but that's how it happened.  Didn't effect the result in either of those challenges anyway.  In saying that, being biased is human nature.  It happens. 
 
We are a pretty tight group here at TTM and we all come and go and come back and run off again for whatever reason.  Life gets in the way sometimes.  I am optimistic that the entries will increase.  Some  months we will get 7 or 8 entries and then there may be a few down months.  Troughs and peaks.
 
Whoever sets the next Challenge might have a completely new set of rules/criteria and that's fair.  That's always been the "power" associated with setting a Challenge.
 
I am tired of typing but at least  I put a couple of thoughts down here. :)

Offline whitestrat73

  • Tea/coffee maker
  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 865
  • Karma: 8
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2013, 12:03:25 PM »
Well, I think Joom qualified his position when he posted his second song.....

Quote
Alright, I believe this one is pre-disqualified because I collabed with Babs.  Not sure, don't know what all the rules are, but I think it is.

After the excellent collab with Babs, I just had to do something else for a challenge like this.  I mean, how often does Dino call out Country for a challenge? 

Anyway, doesn't count, but I can say I worked on not just one but two for this one, Dino. 

Just Another Country Song...
My bold

....which, I think was the correct thing to do. Especially since, the second song is the one in question, again, at Joom's suggestion.  ;)
Our discussing the possibilities of having 2 entries is very thoughtful and brotherly, but I think we should stick with TTM's (previously KAE's) unwritten rules of 'one entry per member (or per person, if you don't have a member ;) ).'

That's just my take on this, of course.  ;D
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
'Plug it in turn it up and play it 'til something breaks!' - Joe Walsh

Offline BubblyBabs

  • Musician
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 11
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2013, 05:49:48 AM »
Hi you guys,
Seems like the cat has been set among the pigeons with this challenge.  Firstly, it  looks like most of you don't like "Country" for a start.  Secondly, it seems like the same person always wins and doesn't much care for anyone else's entries.  I have only entered this challenge because Terry wrote the lyrics and wanted Dave to sing them, but, as you will hear, if you listen carefully, that they were not condusive to a man singing them. Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but, I am entitled to my opinion, just as everyone else is.  The rules don't seem to be crystal clear, so perhaps someone should think about sorting them out before the next challenge.  Com'on guys, this is meant to be fun, isn't it!
do it today

Offline Schprocket

  • Plays lead gill for The Mighty Hellfish and is also
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 4638
  • Karma: 36
  • Does Android dream of electric sheep?
    • View Profile
    • This is my home-away-from-home
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2013, 06:10:10 AM »
Firstly, it  looks like most of you don't like "Country" for a start. 


Not quite as it looks, Babs; the only one on the site who has "issues" with that genre that I'm aware of is me - and I have mentioned it a lot - but you might want to check this out ;)

Everyone else can appreciate it but is likely to be divided over the latter-day over-commercialised pap; this last part sums up most music, IMO.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 06:42:05 AM by Schprocket »
...they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying.

Offline frankenxtein

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • Karma: 8
  • 4 of 5
    • View Profile
    • Frankenxtein
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #81 on: September 17, 2013, 07:01:38 AM »
These are called a challenge ie "You must sing all the parts of the song dressed like a cowboy while holding a Possum" Even for some of the prolific song writers here that would be questionable. I think this months challenge is easy , now is that really much of a challenge? Making things difficult for, people who write a lot of stuff, can be discouraging for those that don't. The number of entries seem to bear that out.   
Constantly tweaking everything and then nothing.

Offline DinoWodini

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1408
  • Karma: 37
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #82 on: September 17, 2013, 07:06:13 AM »
WITHOUT PREJUDUCE.....
 
I am a Country fan from way back - not traditional but - stadium country of the modern age.  Still Country in my mind.  Don't like Country!!!!  I played in a Country band for three years so Count me out of that.  Wow!
 
Who is this mysterious person that always wins and doesn't care about other entries Babs??  Could be PapaG or Whitestrat.  You have won a couple this year White.   
 
If you are referring to me then I take offence at that.  But let me say this I my Defense - I have won maybe two challenges in the past 12 months and, personally, if you are really referring to me then let me tell you - I do care a heck of a lot about all the entries.  I don't have to like all the entries and that's okay.  Same for everyone.  But, over the years of playing live and recording and collabing, you sort of get an understanding for what is out there and where different musicians limits or expertise are at.   I understand that at least.     I have always stated in lots of places on the net that everyone needs to listen to music without prejudice.  I have always done that.

Bottom line Babs is that there are Rules in place.  They maybe unwritten but, they are crystal clear.  We all know the rules.  It has been a long time since the first Challenge at KAE and nothing much has changed since.
 
I can only refer to my post a couple up above as suggest that whoever sets the next Challenge does so with intrepidation and with cotton booties on.     

end.....

Offline Joom

  • I Am The
  • Administrator
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 51
  • I am, it's what I do...
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2013, 07:11:06 AM »
The rules don't seem to be crystal clear, so perhaps someone should think about sorting them out before the next challenge.

Working on that one as we speak, Babs.  Should be good to go shortly.


Com'on guys, this is meant to be fun, isn't it!

Absolutely.  If it's not fun, it's work.  And if it's work, none of us are getting paid enough.  Well, I might be getting paid what I'm worth, but most aren't...
A computer once beat me at chess - but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline Joom

  • I Am The
  • Administrator
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 51
  • I am, it's what I do...
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2013, 07:31:42 AM »
Everyone else can appreciate it but is likely to be divided over the latter-day over-commercialised pap; this last part sums up most music, IMO.

I'm one of those wishy-washy people.  When I hear good rock I'm a rocker, when I hear good country/blues I'm all country/blues.  To some extent, though, the same goes for classical, jazz, opera, and a few 'world' styles.

I'm not against new country (circa 1980+), and every once in a while I hear a new 'country' song that's great, but I'm mostly old country.  I like Hank Williams Jr., but given a choice I'll listen to Hank Williams Sr.  If any of you have seen the Time Life ad for the old country music set, that's mostly my style country.  And I can tell you all about those people, whereas I probably can't name 5% of the current country stars.  For instance, I know who LoneStar is, but only because of the song "Amazed".  Couldn't tell you what else they sing.  And I'm not a huge fan of the rockers who couldn't make it as rockers so they went country, that's what I think of when I think "over-commercialized".

Basically, I just like any music that's done well, and I especially appreciate a vocal track that makes a song what it should be.  The timing, the enunciation, the vocal 'feel'.  Watch any two people sing the same words to the same music, and almost inevitably one will stand out more than the other.

But all that being said, there seems to be a variety here that spans all genres.  And I think a part of this whole challenge thing is (or should be) to push people's boundaries a little sometimes.  Get them out of their comfort zone.  That's why once in a while I actually sing one of my own songs - it's extremely uncomfortable for everyone...
A computer once beat me at chess - but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)


Offline Joom

  • I Am The
  • Administrator
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 51
  • I am, it's what I do...
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2013, 07:47:28 AM »
Are we back on track yet? :)

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?  ???

Oh yeah, more entries for the challenge.  Where are they ladies and gents?  I mean, who can't do a Country song for cryin' out loud...  :o
A computer once beat me at chess - but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline Jahva

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1055
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2013, 07:56:31 AM »
I like Country... well some country.... oh and Fried Chicken.
Mmmmmmm.....  ;D
Playin' the mind guerrilla Chantin' the mantra, peace on earth

JL

Offline onetrackmind

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1245
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2013, 08:10:21 AM »
WITHOUT PREJUDUCE.....
 
I am a Country fan from way back - not traditional but - stadium country of the modern age.  Still Country in my mind.  Don't like Country!!!!  I played in a Country band for three years so Count me out of that.  Wow!
 
Who is this mysterious person that always wins and doesn't care about other entries Babs??  Could be PapaG or Whitestrat.  You have won a couple this year White.   
 
If you are referring to me then I take offence at that.  But let me say this I my Defense - I have won maybe two challenges in the past 12 months and, personally, if you are really referring to me then let me tell you - I do care a heck of a lot about all the entries.  I don't have to like all the entries and that's okay.  Same for everyone.  But, over the years of playing live and recording and collabing, you sort of get an understanding for what is out there and where different musicians limits or expertise are at.   I understand that at least.     I have always stated in lots of places on the net that everyone needs to listen to music without prejudice.  I have always done that.

Bottom line Babs is that there are Rules in place.  They maybe unwritten but, they are crystal clear.  We all know the rules.  It has been a long time since the first Challenge at KAE and nothing much has changed since.
 
I can only refer to my post a couple up above as suggest that whoever sets the next Challenge does so with intrepidation and with cotton booties on.     

end.....

good points Dino. there was a time (maybe a 2 or 3 years ago?) when you and your fellow countryman combobob seemed to be dominate the kae challenge and left the rest of us in your wake. yes it might have irritated a few folk (human nature) but how you guys managed to put out song after song of such quality was something i always admired.
for me it set a benchmark of where i needed to get if i was to win a challenge. i certainly didnt resent it. and like you say, in the past year or so, the winners have been very varied.
I certainly wouldnt say the same person always wins it. yes the main thing is that the challenge is fun and we enjoy making the music. but it is a challenge at the end of the day and some of us are bound to be competitive (consciously or not) and want to win. i dont see anything wrong with that.
having said all that, i doubt i will get an entry this month either. although country isnt my thing at all, i did want to at least attempt something in this genre. with my partner having an operation on her ankle last week, 2 family birthdays last week (including camping trip), I just dont get anytime. ??? :'(
 
maybe i should bring my guitar to work and sit in one of the meetings room of a lunchtime and record then? :P

Offline Schprocket

  • Plays lead gill for The Mighty Hellfish and is also
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 4638
  • Karma: 36
  • Does Android dream of electric sheep?
    • View Profile
    • This is my home-away-from-home
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2013, 08:24:39 AM »
maybe i should bring my guitar to work and sit in one of the meetings room of a lunchtime and record then? :P

I've thought about this on many occasions but 40 odd minutes each way on the train toting a dreadnought kinda kills the enthusiasm quickly :)
...they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying.

Offline Joom

  • I Am The
  • Administrator
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 51
  • I am, it's what I do...
    • View Profile
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2013, 08:44:39 AM »
I've thought about this on many occasions but 40 odd minutes each way on the train toting a dreadnought kinda kills the enthusiasm quickly :)

Two words - Railroad serenade...  ;)
A computer once beat me at chess - but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline whitestrat73

  • Tea/coffee maker
  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 865
  • Karma: 8
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2013, 09:04:10 AM »
Working on that one as we speak, Babs.  Should be good to go shortly.


Yup, I started this thread
http://www.twotrackmusic.com/forums/index.php?topic=5313.0;topicseen
about 17 hours before you posted, BubblyBabs.   :)

Hmmmmmm, don't like country, which kind of country?  ;D

Phew, my head is spinning............  ???

So, I'm gonna carry on scratching my head, while I try to think up a country(ish) tune.  8)
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
'Plug it in turn it up and play it 'til something breaks!' - Joe Walsh

Offline Jahva

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1055
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2013, 09:26:36 AM »
Quote
Great theme Dino
 
Is Shania Twain country or western? what is the difference? wasnt dolly parton country and western?

According to Wiki
During the 1930s and 1940s, cowboy songs, or Western music, which had been recorded since the 1920s, were popularized by films made in Hollywood. Some of the popular singing cowboys  from the era were Gene Autry , the Sons of the Pioneers  and Roy Rogers .[35]  Country music and western music were frequently played together on the same radio stations, hence the term country and western music.
Playin' the mind guerrilla Chantin' the mantra, peace on earth

JL

Offline Jahva

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1055
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2013, 09:27:24 AM »
I've thought about this on many occasions but 40 odd minutes each way on the train toting a dreadnought kinda kills the enthusiasm quickly :)

Sounds like a Busking opp.  Get yerself one of them lightweight mini geetars, an empty cup and you're good to go. ;D
Playin' the mind guerrilla Chantin' the mantra, peace on earth

JL

Offline neilmac

  • Producer
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
    • My page at Reverbnation
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2013, 10:42:26 AM »
I've thought about this on many occasions but 40 odd minutes each way on the train toting a dreadnought kinda kills the enthusiasm quickly :)

Just hit record and sing....the background clickety clack can replace the instruments!!
Sounds perfect to me ;)

"I been riding this train for too damn long,
it's interfering with me writing this song,
I can't wait till the weekend comes,
'till I get away from these 9 to 5 bums.
Yee haw"

;)

Offline Schprocket

  • Plays lead gill for The Mighty Hellfish and is also
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 4638
  • Karma: 36
  • Does Android dream of electric sheep?
    • View Profile
    • This is my home-away-from-home
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2013, 10:46:33 AM »
Got meself a little Microcube and was going to use home-made and bought BTs with that and just sing. Don't fancy having some dick playing silly-buggers with my guitar.

I looked at the travel guitars - the Matons - but they're just as expensive as the Art & Lutherie dready I own and I just don't feel I play well enough to justify owning one :(

Anyway, back on topic, the latest vox demo is in the box.
Let me know if you think they're ok cos I feel it's just about ready to go, save for the bits you wanted to add. ;)
...they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying.

Offline Jahva

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1055
  • Karma: 14
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2013, 11:10:58 AM »
Cool beans I'll check em out. Will pm some thoughts this evening.
Playin' the mind guerrilla Chantin' the mantra, peace on earth

JL

Offline Schprocket

  • Plays lead gill for The Mighty Hellfish and is also
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 4638
  • Karma: 36
  • Does Android dream of electric sheep?
    • View Profile
    • This is my home-away-from-home
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2013, 12:56:58 AM »
Gentlemens, it is I, Randy Zunovabic!

My collaborator Borrrrris and I have decided that the song, she is not "country" and so will not be submitting her for challenge.

However, will be releasing sometime in near future, maybe teaser of original demo first if you lucky.

Thanks you, good luck in your challenge, and as always... NO LADY-MANS!
...they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying.

Offline DinoWodini

  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1408
  • Karma: 37
    • View Profile
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2013, 07:11:53 AM »
Stop holding back u Russkies.  Set up a Thread and let's hear it.

Offline Schprocket

  • Plays lead gill for The Mighty Hellfish and is also
  • TTM Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 4638
  • Karma: 36
  • Does Android dream of electric sheep?
    • View Profile
    • This is my home-away-from-home
    • Youtube's channel
Re: ODC Challenge - September 2013
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2013, 08:05:03 AM »
Stop holding back u Russkies.  Set up a Thread and let's hear it.


Mate, the Croatian Cowboy beat me to it...
...they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying.